Lies, damn lies and statistics, Just how many cameras are out there ...? Options

[Doktor Jon]

Some weeks ago, I took part in a radio interview (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) and the presenter threw the old chestnut at me about 4.2 million cameras in the UK, and the average bod being caught on camera 300 times a day.

Now weeks later, and suffering from post IFSEC stress disorder, the thought that has been going through my mind is, given that the 4.2 million figure has been widely reported in the press and media for perhaps the last couple of years, I just wonder what the true figure is likely to be.

Not knowing the methodology used to produce the original estimate, it doesn't seem unreasonable to suggest that given the ongoing good fortunes of the CCTV / IP Video Industries, that 4.2 million figure is now unlikely to be accurate, even assuming that it was in the first place.

Also suggesting that the average person will be caught on camera 300 times a day, just appears to me to be an absolute nonsense, even if it were possible.

The bulk of the population that lives away from saturated urban areas, are hardly likely to be caught on camera more than a handful of times a day ... if that.
As a Londoner, I know that even on an average journey through my unfair city, whether on foot or by car, there is absolutely no way that I would be faithfully recorded 300 times. Even if I went out of my way to walk in front of every camera i could see, I would have to spend 23 and a bit hours walking repeatedly backwards and forwards in front of the same cameras, to get anywhere near the figure quoted.

And of course that's without taking account of whether even if an individual is captured on camera, how likely is it that every recording will actually yield any recognisable images ...

I think I need to think some more (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[Mick]

I picked this little (SOURCED) stat up at a CCTV conferance back in 2003/04 -

"An educated guestimate indicates that there are 500,000 Public Access Space CCTV cameras in Greater London. Of these only 12% are believed to be fully compliant with the Data Protection Act and registered with the Information Commissioners Office." (Source, Professor Clive Norris, University of Sheffield).

Not sure how he arrived at that figure, but I do recall it involved someone walking up an down a high street counting the cameras.

[Mr Jeff]

Most likely its been sourced by IMS research, they interview manufacturers, installers, then there's the finger in the air and a market report. I'll look it up when we get the latest versions.
J

[Doktor Jon]

I've just realised, that 300 times a day on camera stat., probably refers to IFSEC (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I can't believe how many times I was caught on camera, and not a DPA compliant sign in sight anywhere (IMG:style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif)

That 500k figure is quite interesting Mick, as having kicked what's left of my grey matter into operating mode, I'm 95% certain that it was Prof. Norris that started the 4 > 4.2 million figure off all those years ago.

I remember it raised a few eyebrows then, and despite the growth of the CCTV Industry since, I still haven't found anyone that has a really accurate idea as to how many cameras are out dare on der shtweets.

It seems to be a subject of constant fascination for both journalists and civil libertarians, but I prefer to look at how the cameras are being used, rather than simply how many ...

Just curious Mr Jeff, but do you remember who the organisation was that used to produce the stats for the CCTV Manufacturers and Distributors Association (and what happened to that?).

Anyone have any ideas ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Mick]

I came across this last week that gives some numbers for London Boroughs.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article...lved/article.do

Still all looks a bit woolley to me.

[Ilkie]

I came across this last week that gives some numbers for London Boroughs.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article...lved/article.do

Still all looks a bit woolley to me.

According to this press release, the numbers include TfL cameras, which we know are not used for crime and disorder purposes.

I do wish TfL would sign these cameras so the public become aware.

Ilkie

[Doktor Jon]

I remember this story was based on research by the Liberal Democrats on the London Assembly, and I think I included it in the News Section on my main site (I'd better check that now, I'm curious (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ).

I did read something a couple of days ago which was attributed to Graeme Gerrard, the ACPO lead on the National CCTV Strategy.

If I got this right, I think he was saying that the original 4.2 million figure was based on a camera count by Prof Norris and his team in Putney High Street, which was then rolled across the country to achieve the eventual result (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

Not sure myself now if I read that correctly, hang on a tick ....

Back again ... found the page in question here http://www.publicservice.co.uk/feature_sto...ic=e-government

So now we know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[MichaelC]

Putney High Street (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

Well obviously an awful lot of thought must have gone in to choosing the ideal location for that research (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Mick]

Putney High Street (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

Well obviously an awful lot of thought must have gone in to choosing the ideal location for that research (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

A bit late I know but I have finally found the Putney High Street report (the one that first published a best guess of the numbers of CCTV cameras in the UK).

It can be found here -

http://www.urbaneye.net/results/ue_wp6.pdf

Page 20 (Conclusion) has the numbers.